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Ringae Nuek: Welcome to Ways to College, a podcast for parents and students who want to understand how college actually works and how to make the most of it, not just get in. I'm Ringae, founder of Waysmith. On this show, you'll hear from higher ed leaders and thinkers doing things a little differently. I hope you'll come away understanding what matters, asking smarter questions, and able to make an informed decision that's truly yours.
Ringae Nuek: My guest today is Harlan Cohen, bestselling author of The Naked Roommate, speaker and creator of Best First Year, a college coaching and success program for parents and students.
Ringae Nuek: I was really, excited to get you on because what? Pulled me in, was that you're not focused on getting in, but you're focused on what happens after that transition.
And how to make that actually something, an environment in which a student can thrive. And I feel like so much of the conversation, as an IEC, can be around, you know, how the student gets in and not what happens after.
So I'd love it if you could start by introducing yourself and then, let us know about your own college story and what inspired you to focus on this point. The college transition point.
Harlan Cohen: So I'm really excited to be here. I love helping families to navigate change, and especially when it comes to college. I think it's such an important part of a student's life, and it's not even about where they go. It's about understanding the dynamics of change. It's about really thinking through what is it that I want?
And what are the things that I need to do in order to align myself with the right opportunities? You know, so much of college is about getting something, getting in an accomplishment, a trophy, a win. And those are all really exciting. And I don't wanna take any of that away, but I live in a place where I'm more focused on the experience that happens after you get in.
And recognizing that the secret ingredient is not the school. It's the student and an understanding of how to anticipate this change and how to set yourself up for success. So that's kinda the background. And I really struggled with my college experience and, you'd think that having gone through it so many years ago would make it less relevant, but it's actually become even more relevant and it's actually more of a common story that's talked about than ever before.
I came from a great community, very competitive. I was an average student, not really exceptional, in terms of academics. I excelled in lots of other places that weren't valued as highly as academics. So I really had this, self-image of myself as not being as good as or enough, go to college.
And the most important thing for me was to. Not lose my girlfriend. 'cause I didn't know how I got one. And I was really happy. She was a senior and I was a freshman. And, I just wanted to be able to, make friends and, I didn't really know what to do other than hopefully make my roommate a friend.
My roommate could be a friend. Tried to rush a fraternity. Short story is, my roommate ended up moving out after a couple weeks. He had his own life situations. I didn't get into any fraternities and my girlfriend dumped me. So that's how it started. And I'm at this amazing school, University of Wisconsin in Madison. I'm really struggling to find my way. I describe myself as a slow burn kind of guy in terms of relationship building and that doesn't work well when people are meeting you and, you're trying to get into certain groups or orgs 'cause it takes a while. And I ended up transferring and, my second semester was a lot better because I stopped requiring people to like me.
I was a little more focused on what I wanted and I didn't really pick up on that. And, I transferred to Indiana University. My brothers had gone there. I had friends there. There was a fraternity where I was a legacy, so I already had a place. So that felt a lot more comfortable and I, had.
A challenging year. 'cause just the change was hard, but I, I figured out how to find my way. You know, I found my people through the Indiana Daily Student and eventually through some improv group and, and through the fraternity. And I found my places and, and I was able to, create a pretty extraordinary experience.
After I graduated, I was writing my advice column for the Indiana Daily Student and I kept writing that and I kept seeing students, share stories that were similar to mine. And that was really where this all started. And, I've been in this space for a long time and I don't just focus on college, I focus on.
Social changes, emotional, physical, financial, academic, professional, and I've got The Naked Roommate and 107 Other Issues You Might Run Into in College, which is, the most popular book on college life and several other books. But they all reflect how do you Navigate, change? And college just happens to be one of the most dramatic, biggest changes in a student's life.
And it's one that's often. Approached through a lens that sets students up to struggle rather than to thrive.
Ringae Nuek: Yeah. I was interested in your, you've mentioned this concept of wantrophy, right? So I'd love it if you could get into that and. Speak to how that maybe sets kids up for not really knowing themselves.
Harlan Cohen: Yeah. Well this idea of wanting is so important. You know this question of what do you want versus being wanted And so many students focus on being wanted, and parents focus on this. There's a scarcity fear mindset. And when you're focused on being wanted, you are more focused on being compliant.
You're more focused on checking boxes. You're more focused on bending to what other people, want or you think they want. So students oftentimes end up doing more to be wanted than really focusing on what do they want. And this starts early because it's like if you want to go to a top college, you need to be a top student.
There's certain things you need to do. So you stop focusing more on what you want, and you start focusing more on doing the things that other people want you to do or tell you to do. And I've worked with so many students. Who go to exceptional high schools, independent schools, and it's less about what they want and it's more about all the things that they've done so that they can be the best possible candidate to be wanted.
And when I ask a student the question, what do you want? Like, what do you really want? A lot of them struggle to answer that question because they don't wanna get it wrong. You know, they don't understand wanting. It can be about having an experience, you know, wanting, could be about seeing how something feels, you know, wanting could be, do you want to continue to do this?
You know, the stakes are so high that a lot of students don't know how to want from a place of being curious and having these self discoveries and parents are just as much a part of the problem because. Yeah, they want their kids to have these great futures and they're scared.
So it's what is it that you want and how can I direct you? But the problem is we live in a world where things are changing rapidly. There's very little security in terms of jobs and career paths. And a student who's always trying to please and be compliant and do what other people want is really at risk of.
Being in a situation where they're let go. A company changes their priorities. I'm talking about the workforce, and they don't know how to do anything else but be wanted, and that's not gonna serve them as much as being someone who really understands how to be curious and how to connect with people who are living the lives they wanna live.
That can. Help them to find a path that's based less on being wanted and more on what they want. And the wantrophy part is when you don't flex your want muscle, it atrophies.
Ringae Nuek: Especially nowadays where no one is guaranteed this, career where you climb up a little ladder and then you get to a VP position. If you don't have that let me control my own future. Let me take the next step point of view. It's also gonna harm you in your career because you're always going to be reacting to the next layoff and not actually making the jump on yourself.
I'm based in San Francisco and I was at a cafe. Eavesdropping unintentionally to these two girls with a Stanford cap on. And one of them was talking about how she's trying to, I think she was a recent grad. She was working in San Francisco, just wasn't sure what to do with her spare time because she'd never. Thought about what she might enjoy. You know, it was always this college, let me optimize for that. And that just seems so sad to me that by the time you're in your mid twenties, you have no idea what you might want.
Harlan Cohen: Yeah. That's a really, it's not an uncommon situation when a student is a high achiever. And I had a conversation with some students on the Stanford campus because I just, sometimes go to campuses and talk to students and record the conversations, and one of the biggest regrets the seniors had was that they.
Wish that they had taken more classes based on what interested them as opposed to taking classes that were more impressive that, you know, people would look at them and be like, whoa, that's, you know, so there's this constant comparison and that achievement mindset. And, if someone is so good at being wanted from middle school to high school, to college to career.
You're not dealing with as much rejection, which rejection really creates reflection. Rejection helps you to really identify what is it that you really want. When a student doesn't get into their dream school, I'm not shattered. I'm actually hopeful because what it does is it really puts the student in charge of their dream, the expectation that a school is gonna do this and that for me.
Evaporates instantly, and now you are the one who's in charge. And that's a scary feeling. And it's also scary to get rejected when a student is pursued and consistently wanted professionally. They might get these job offers and they're gonna get paid well, and now all of a sudden, it's hard to say no. Do I really wanna do this?
Well, I mean, it's too good to pass up. And then you're in your twenties or you're in your early thirties and you're making some great money, and you open your eyes and you ask yourself the question, how did I get here? You know, what do I really want? It's so unfair for students who feel like they're doing everything right to all of a sudden be faced with that question.
And, it's a little harder I think, as you get older and have more responsibilities because you have, you know, a little less freedom to just pivot as quickly as you want and go in the direction the wind's blowing.
Ringae Nuek: Yeah. No good, good recipe for a midlife crisis.
Harlan Cohen: Absolutely.
Ringae Nuek: What do you think has changed in terms of the challenges with the college transition from, our generation?
Harlan Cohen: I think there's more of an awareness, you know, people understand, Feelings and acknowledging those and this idea of loneliness. You know, I think a lot of students were lonely in the past. I think they're feeling more loneliness. You know, two thirds of students report feeling lonely and, they'll talk about that.
Also, a big difference is of course, technology. You know, cell phones and, students being connected. They're connected and they're more aware of what they're missing out on. They can see things happening around them, and they can pick and choose what they want to define their experience.
And also the rejection and the isolation and the reminder of you are not included in what's wrong with you. An idea like, what's wrong with me? You know, there are so many times where a student can ask that question, especially when it comes to, college. There's also such an emphasis on.
How wonderful the experience is gonna be and, going to a higher ranked, more prestigious school. I think students think they're gonna have a better experience. They're gonna have a, more fulfilling experience. They don't think about. What's gonna happen next? So I think the anticipation, the scarcity, the fear, the misguided, goal of only getting in as opposed to what I'm gonna do once I'm there.
And then, you know, being so connected, and also the parents. I think parents heighten in many ways, they're more involved, also creates I think another level of. Responsibility, perhaps disappointment. You know, I don't wanna disappoint my parents, you know, 'cause the parents are excited too.
'cause they anticipate it being a certain way. So I think all those things just create challenge, you know, it's very hard because I think, you know, I went through this years ago before it was something so many people talked about, but I also know that there were a lot of people who were struggling.
Ringae Nuek: Mm-hmm.
Harlan Cohen: It's just they didn't talk about it. And I think it's obviously increased. But I think that, you know, change is inherently challenging for people regardless of whether they have a device or not, or whether they're a teenager or they're later in life. You know, change is hard. I just think in particular this college change is one that, it's amazing how much energy is spent on the getting in part.
I had a conversation with a, with a grad today, soon to be college grad.
And, I really like this student and it was fascinating to hear him talk about his job search and how it's such a difficult job market and there was so much emphasis on how hard it is, and it's like I had to remind him like, you're living through one of the most astounding times in the history of humanity.
You are living through what is gonna be looked at as. The industrial revolution we are living through it. The dot-com boom is gonna be like a footnote to what's going on now, like this is it, and to walk into this part of your life waiting for someone to give you something, as opposed to being an active participant in problem solving is.
Such a mistake. It's like you can get a job, but listen while you're getting that job. I would create a job and creating a job means what are problems that need to be solved? How can I use this brain and my fortune of being born into a time where I've always been talking to devices and interacting with devices?
Because people could say whatever they want about AI and push back. But you know this from, your career and how things are changing. The stuff that you were doing, prior to your current job. And I did research and I saw you're doing really cool things and so many of the things are gonna be changing dramatically, through, AI
I mean, you still need someone who has top level knowledge and can be able to, Create the right prompts and understand, what will work and what may not work. But man, we are living in a time where curiosity is currency and relationships are what matter most.
Ringae Nuek: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it, all goes back to the self-reflection. When you understand where your strengths are and what you know, what energizes you, then you can take all these steps forward. Like with your job search, right? Then you can deliberately target certain people.
You can deliberately start certain conversations 'cause you actually have something to say, right? And you're not just copying and pasting this very rote, a AI generated piece of text that doesn't really mean anything because it doesn't actually come from any real thought observations.
Harlan Cohen: Right, you're interested. You're interested and you're emotionally invested.
Ringae Nuek: Yeah. So you're talking a lot about students taking charge of this. So how do they do that?
Harlan Cohen: During the college search process, it's a really wonderful time to reflect and to really think about what do I want? A lot of. Students don't know how to answer that question, and parents don't really know. They go to college campuses and they walk around like cattle waiting for something to click,
the mistake is focusing on rankings and being wanted and thinking the school's gonna be the thing that's gonna magically create this future for you.
The way I like to organize it is through the six different transitions, social, emotional, physical, financial, academic, and professional. I've actually added professional as part of the six different areas of transition where students really need to think which of these are the top two, which are the top three, because when you start thinking about what's next and what it is you want, maybe it's social.
Maybe it's emotional, maybe it's professional, you know, academic and professional could be similar. But when it comes to internships, which can be really hard to get when it comes to, building skills, having research opportunities, being, Part of co-op programs. Yeah, that professional piece is really important.
And the professional piece really also goes hand in hand with curiosity and being able to connect with people who are doing similar things. So you start with what are the three most important factors? If you want to, you can start with two, if three is too many, and then you think people, places patience,
Where are the places I can do this thing that I want to do? Who are the people who are doing it? How long does it take for people to really get comfortable with the uncomfortable and now you have a direction? Because now you can take each of these aspects and you can start to think about schools where you can do things that can align you with the right people in the right places.
'cause now it's like this is what I want. And if a student's like, I wanna play soccer, right? It's like a high achieving student wants to play soccer. And I'm like, great, go play soccer because you're gonna play it at a school that's probably pretty good, most likely. Right? And you're also gonna be someone who naturally wants to achieve
You're going to build meaningful connections and have relationships. If you're someone who socially is really uncomfortable, well, you wanna make sure that you go to a school that's going to support you socially and emotionally. You wanna look for a school where you can show up and you're gonna be included.
Where you're gonna have a support system, where you're gonna have an easier transition, and you're gonna have people who can support you during that transition. That could be a big school, it could be a large school, and it could be a specific program within a large school. If you have learning differences, you want to use that as one of the most important places, you know, who are the people.
So what happens is if a student starts to take inventory about what it is that interests them and where they can do those things. Start to talk to people and ask questions that reflect, you know, I love Model UN or Debate or something, artistic, something musical. It's like that becomes your North Star.
And then there's all these other things that you're gonna learn from it. Because if you can start to build community, like imagine what community is, start to be able to really create those dynamics. It changes the whole game, right? Because now when you're going on a college tour, you're not just walking around, you're going there trying to meet people who are involved with this organization or that organization.
You're able to talk to the tour guide, being informed and having an idea of what you want. You get to go to certain offices, you meet certain people. You don't just show up at admissions and walk around.
Ringae Nuek: Yeah.
Harlan Cohen: This is a big investment. It's remarkable the amount of money and time families will commit and students will commit without really, understanding, how to set yourself up for success.
So that's. How I help families to start, with those big transitions, and then using the actual people in places from their community who they see online, social media, through the admissions office, through spiritual groups, through friends, through family, and then the student gets to be curious, gets to reach out.
It's so cool.
Ringae Nuek: Yeah. That's a little similar. I have this thing, I call it prototyping your college experience, and I save it a little more, it's a little less upfront and it's a little more towards the end where you have a few to choose from.
I have students map out, here are the things, I really wanna do undergrad research.
This X, Y, Z experience is like, go find those in each of these top three schools that you've narrowed it down to and see how viable they are. You know, reach out to these people on LinkedIn
because for sure you can really kick the tires, I think, of what a college genuinely offers versus your checkbox, yes, we have this thing, but you, it does help students to have a little bit of a framework
Harlan Cohen: I'm a big fan also of, looking at the schools based on these things that they're interested in. But I also really like bringing in the six big changes because I feel like it really shapes what's going to happen.
And then It also makes it very clear. It's like pulling back the curtain because like when a student's saying, they want good weather or they want to be able to do research opportunities, it's like, that's great. Okay. So I would file that under like the physical transition and emotional, you know, if it's something where there's certain things physically that you want to do.
So that's great. Seeing, the range of schools. It's interesting 'cause it's like, you know, students oftentimes when it comes to their major or when it comes to some of the questions that I think they're asked when it comes to college, they don't know the answer. So what I really like about the framework that I provide is you're going to have something you're excited about, you know, pretty much covers it all.
And the social part people underestimate like the social part is so important. It's so important because having the right people, the right social dynamics, open your mind and eyes up to so much more and it enables you to be a better student because you're regulated, and you have community.
Ringae Nuek: I mean, I think in some ways it's the most important because It sets your happiness level, right? And if you're unhappy, You can do well in classes, but you're gonna be miserable. And That's not good, you know?
Harlan Cohen: It's hard to be curious, like what gets in the way of curiosity.
Ringae Nuek: Yeah.
Harlan Cohen: Right. And I think that's, those are blockers, you know, loneliness and, and, uh. Those, those things that, uh, so many students struggle with emotionally.
Ringae Nuek: So what do you think are. Any markers, as people are, as families are perhaps visiting campus or logging onto websites,
Harlan Cohen: Sure.
Ringae Nuek: Are there markers of colleges that are more inclined to be supportive
Harlan Cohen: I mean, there are lots of different ways of approaching it. You know, sometimes it can be a specific department that really stands out and has a community that's nurturing, that's gonna provide the best fit. But there could be other parts of campus that are not, you know, it could be a big campus. I'm thinking of even like, you know, Arizona State University is a great school, big school.
They have smaller programs. Indiana has smaller programs, but then there are some bigger programs. It's really about What is it that's most specific to you? You know, different schools have different strengths. I think that you could also look at the leadership of the institution. You can see where they're allocating resources.
That's gonna help to, give you a sense of, does this school prioritize what's also important to me? But it's like once you have an idea of some of those things you want, then it becomes a little easier to search. And there's so many ways to do it through Reddit and through communities, like through friends, through family, and it's asking those specific questions.
And then if there's an interest. A lot of times, you can directly reach out to students or even parents who are part of communities. You're just asking, you know, here's some things my kid's interested in. You people have been through this year after year, so it's like, why not at least put it out there?
It's a different way of approaching it rather than what's the highest ranked school? What's the job? My students have the best chance of getting a career, you know, getting a job placement. It's like, here are the things they're interested in and they need this kind of more nurturing environment, smaller classes, you know, they also wanna get involved with intramurals, you know, where are some places?
So, I, I think that's another way to define that.
Ringae Nuek: What do you think is a ballpark, amount of time to spend per college researching to have a accurate gauge of it being a good fit?
Harlan Cohen: I think the more focused a student is on the things that are important to them, the more efficient they can be when it comes to spending their time. I think it's the difference between walking into Costco. And knowing what you need versus walking around and being like, what's here?
I think that when you have an idea of why you're there and what's most important to you, it becomes easier. And, sometimes it can be very overwhelming because these institutions are so big and it is so challenging to know how to approach them and to find the right answers.
So I think it varies, but The more you understand what you want and what's important to you, the easier it becomes to find schools that are going to provide those opportunities.
Ringae Nuek: How do you see the parents' role in all of this?
Harlan Cohen: Parents are very influential and a parent who can understand that the stakes are not so high. A parent who can, reduce anxiety.
A parent who can. Help a student to understand that there are lots of places. You know, a parent who knows where you go isn't the most important part. It's what you do. And, a parent who really understands how to measure success is going to be a wonderful partner because success is really more about the experiences that students have and, less about the name of the school.
And, that, that's where it gets to be so challenging. So parents who reduce stress, who actually believe the things I'm saying, really make it easier for students. So they're more of a coach.
Ringae Nuek: When they are more prestige oriented, have you found anything in particular. Helps them understand the, it's not where you go. It's what you do when you get there.
Harlan Cohen: Some people are always gonna think what they want. It's very hard to get someone who has a story in their mind to shift that story. And I think that. One thing that helps is to, I'm a big fan of yes-anding and saying, going to that school would be great.
And students who go to that school, a lot of them have great outcomes. And, a lot of students who go to other schools have great outcomes. And, it would be really interesting to actually look at some graduates from different schools and to see what types of careers. They have to see what lives they're living because if you can point to examples and use the old Yes.
And of like, that's great. There's also this other path and I just want you to, you know, investigate and see where do people go. So if it's another school that maybe people don't know as much about, it's. Going to the career center, it's looking at those resources, looking at their alumni magazine.
It's seeing what types of opportunities they have available. 'cause sometimes a high achieving student who is attending a school that's less competitive, creates more relationships, has more access to more experiences. If that help them to build skills and ultimately end up in, you know, as good of a place or even better place.
Because they are self-directed and, they have access and they meet people from, it's also really cool. Like, that's one of the things I love about Arizona State University is like, you have a student who's in an honors program and you get students from all over the country, and then you're involved with different leadership groups and you've got people from all different backgrounds.
And I think being worldly, having a cross section of, people from different backgrounds is really important. Sometimes when you go to. Schools that have you know, they're the most selective. Sometimes you can limit, I think the range of experiences and people who you get to meet.
Ringae Nuek: Yeah. And I was really struck when I first, got involved in this, how much opportunities do vary from school to school in terms of how cutthroat the clubs are to get into, or how much,
Harlan Cohen: Yeah.
Ringae Nuek: Like research are made available to you. It really does vary, and it doesn't vary at all necessarily based on selectivity.
In fact, some highly selective schools can. Be very difficult to get. It can be very difficult to get
Harlan Cohen: Yeah.
Ringae Nuek: To the things that you see and think, Ooh, I wanna take part in that.
Harlan Cohen: I think that's where really identifying specific opportunities, specific things a student wants to do, and then having them go a layer deeper and be like, you know, what are the specific clubs? You know, how do students get involved Who. Aspire to pursue a similar career path, and then they learn that, you know, 80% or 90% of people who try to get into this professional fraternity don't get in.
And that's a really interesting observation because then. They can make some really thoughtful decisions. You know, lately I've been telling students, if you want to do something and you can't get access to that particular club or organization, then go in there with the mindset that you're gonna start your own, meet people while you're going through that process, who, if they don't get in, you can collaborate and have like this other program. In fact, you'll be like, so calm. You'll probably get in because you'll like not care as much because you'll be taking care of yourself. But it's the same idea of like, listen, if they don't give it to you, create it. And that is like, I mean, I love that concept of taking agency, being, having ownership.
It's like we have. All of these agents that we're creating through AI to do things for us, and that's wonderful. But the most important agent is us, is the student. Understanding that you are the orchestrator, you are the center, you're the most important part. You can do anything and it doesn't mean you're going to be, Successful in terms of being able to support yourself and your family doing it. But you do it and you learn and then you meet people and you do something else. It's so fascinating. I think a lot of it's 'cause like I have a very entrepreneurial, you know, ADHD brain. I just, the idea of like having an.
For years I tried to get people to want me, you know, selling my advice column and, and it's like, man, like you don't need anyone to give you permission to do what you want now, and you can get, this is the first time in the history of, of humanity that I think, you know, all you need is, is access to a computer and you can learn anything.
Like you're plugged in. It is extraordinary. So, so you know what limits people? And I think it's that, again, that scarcity and fear. You know, if people are always looking to solve problems, there are always problems.
Ringae Nuek: Yeah, absolutely.
I'm super excited. Now with ai, I wanna build this college list picker that's very, fit, fit focused,
Harlan Cohen: Yeah.
Ringae Nuek: There's so many lists out there, obviously that are all rankings based, and then there's a few that try and do fit, but they only do it in this very crude way that's like size, you know, what type of institution, et cetera.
But I think now with AI you can get a lot more nuance and I'm excited
Harlan Cohen: I've actually had a bunch of people reach out to me who have created those. And I think the idea of like, as a consultant, you have your own, your own this,
Ringae Nuek: Yeah.
Harlan Cohen: And that's wonderful. It's exciting. One is having a consultant, having someone, a third party who shares theirs with you, but for like a student, you know, like creating your own, like even part of like your practice it could be like, Hey, you know what, not only do I have this one that I created, I want you to create your own, which is such a cool way of doing it.
And it's also a way of surrendering power in a sense of like, listen, I got these tools I created and this is how I did it. But here's the thing, you can do it too. So now not only are you in charge, you can take a day, you can find, it's just one idea. It's just like, but it's this idea again of like being served versus being your own agent.
Ringae Nuek: Yeah. Do you feel like there are colleges out there that are more supportive of this way of thinking about students?
Harlan Cohen: I think there are schools that are focusing more on, understanding the power of AI and, giving students those tools but in terms of the model, unless you're in an entrepreneurial. Group. I think that's something to look out for.
I think it's something to ask about. I know with some of the schools, my son's a senior, and this idea of individuals being their own businesses is something that, I've seen talked about. What does that mean and how do students execute that? That's something to ask about, if a student is doing something, it's interesting, like if they're in the medical field, it's like.
You obviously, if you are no longer employed, you can't, Practice medicine the same way. But you certainly can talk about it. You can help other people to know how to do something. There's always a problem that's either directly related to what you're doing or tangentially related to, your field of study.
So I think it's interesting, you look at also the professors. There's this wonderful book Hacking College, which I love, which focuses more on field of study approach rather than checking the boxes. And a lot of it could depend on advisors. Do you have an advisor who's really encouraging you to be curious and connecting you with people who are living those experiences and opportunities in your community?
Or is your advisor simply having you check boxes so that you can get your degree, rather than having a very clear idea of what you're gonna do with that.
Ringae Nuek: Yeah. I like these engineering programs that are very grand challenges focused because I do feel like that has you thinking about what problems do I want to solve? And it's not just, here's a bunch of math and science I'm doing in this output neutral way.
Harlan Cohen: Yeah. I know that there's an initiative. I was just, looking at something from Lumina Foundation where. The college to career pipeline and, creating programs that really reflect skill building. 'cause employers want skills.
And I think a family who's investing should ask those questions. What are they doing to support skill building? What are they doing to support research opportunities, internships, mentorships, what are the actual programs? Are there certain programs that guarantee employment? I was talking to somebody who said there is, a school that's experimenting with this, promise that we are gonna get you a job and, schools are gonna be focused more and more on.
The return on the investment. I think it's really important that a school follows through with that. I think it's also really important that if that school gets that student a job, a student understands how they got that job so they can get a second job. 'cause second job's gonna be even more important than that first one.
Ringae Nuek: What do You mean by that? That the student understands how they got it.
Harlan Cohen: It's the same way of like, someone who's exceptional and they're being recruited. It's like, how did you put yourself in a position where you were able to, have success getting this job? What are the specific qualities? What are the skills? And I can equate this to relationships.
If you're in a room long enough, eventually one thing will lead to another and people can fall in love. It doesn't mean they know how it happened. They can be in a relationship and have no clue. So you can be in a system and then leave that system with a job. But if you don't understand how to build relationships, if you don't understand how to nurture relationships, if you don't understand.
How curiosity leads to connection. If you don't know how to maintain relationships, then you'll get that first job. But you know, it's the fish. You know, you give 'em a fish, but, they need to understand the process. And, that's, I do a lot of teaching that I have a book called Win or Learn and Win or Learn is all about understanding the, it's a five step process to help students to, really anyone to go from what is it that I want to actually putting together a plan and understanding how to, create the dynamics in your life and the action steps to actually get results.
And the thing about me and my coaching and teaching. It's not about the outcome, it's about process. It's about understanding process because, process, especially now, given how everything is changing is just so, so important. That's why you can help students get into a school, but this is such a great opportunity to break down.
What do you need to think about in order to find the right. Environment for you as opposed to you telling me your interests and me giving you a list of schools, I want you to understand the process.
Ringae Nuek: Do you see patterns in the type of kid who tends to struggle more?
Harlan Cohen: Do I see patterns? You know, it's interesting 'cause I think one of the patterns is students who expect it least, the ones who don't anticipate it, the ones who are used being vulnerable. Yeah.
Ringae Nuek: Okay.
Harlan Cohen: It's like, you know, high school gives them a false sense of, of security. And, it gets them in, but it, it doesn't really prepare them.
And, you know, students are not great at solving problems. Students who haven't solved problems in the past. And I mean, by problems, it's like you can solve your academic problems. But social, emotional, physical, financial, professional, like students who have those, they call 'em soft skills, but they're actually the hardest, most important skills.
So those students who have some mileage, the students who know how to bounce back those students are better situated, students. And again, it's like a student who had a really difficult time, who gets a lot of help and is in a great place, but doesn't understand the tools to use, doesn't understand how to regulate, doesn't understand how to look for those signs of, trouble that,
Were precursors to some of their other challenges. Those students who have, those students who have a history and don't really understand how they were able to get better and don't have that self-awareness can be vulnerable. Students who have the wrong expectations or these expectations of, things being a certain way, who don't anticipate the loneliness, who don't understand.
Not getting the grades that you're used to getting are difficult. These are normal things. There are so many students and parents, a student who has, a parent who doesn't understand. The first year is really just a getting comfortable year. It's a year of adjustment.
There's so many different changes going on and, a parent should have very few expectations. Don't place a lot of expectations. Be an observer who is open to communicating if there's a problem. I know it's kind of a clumsy answer, but, I think it's high achievers are surprisingly very vulnerable, especially going to competitive schools.
There's first generation students who have had so much scaffolding and support who don't have it. Once they get there, there are students who have. Had learning differences and challenges who are in a new place and working through the disability services on a college campus is very different. 'cause you have to be the one to advocate.
You know, it's not like you're served, you have to be the one to take action. So, you know, a lot of families are thrown by that. A student who sometimes it's really hard to to know, but it's like those high achievers who don't get the grades they're used to getting, you know, a lot of them shrivel up.
I don't say to have small expectations, you have big expectations, but give yourself a timeline. Allow yourself to go the wrong way. Give yourself room for things to not work out. And then it's like, oh, you know, this is the uncomfortable year. I call it the getting comfortable year, which builds in comfort.
So, you know, people who don't tell their story, meaning what your year is gonna look like and how are you gonna create the life you want? And people who tell a story that is rigid without room for, unexpected, unwanted outcomes.
Ringae Nuek: I like that. Yeah.
Allowing for flexibility.
Think also the, the work that you're having the students do where they have already done the legwork to find the things they're excited about, just makes it that much easier to just stroll into those the first few weeks on campus because you're not having to figure out what they are in the first place. Already know what they are and you can just roll up.
Harlan Cohen: This is like a student who was I was talking to about, as a senior and was talking about wanting to get to know professionals in the community When I get to campus in the fall, and I was like, why do you have to wait till the fall? I'm like, why don't you do it now? Like, what?
What are you waiting for this idea? Like, I need to do things at a certain time. It's like, no, like do all this stuff now. If you're interested, do it now. In fact, it's even better to do it now because there are gonna be fewer people who are doing the same thing as you because you really are curious and wanna learn.
So do it now.
And they need coaching. You know, it's like I have a lot of sympathy 'cause these are not things that they're taught. I think that's why people value what I share because, like It's like you want to go get it, get hurt, get uncomfortable, you know, get a little bruised and like learn something and exercise humility and find people who, you respect.
And those people have been. Beaten and bruised, you know, through this process. You know how it goes. It's like life is brutal at times. And it's like if you don't expect it to be brutal and to have cycles, well then you're living in a fantasy land. So, you know, and I'm very sympathetic.
Like I get, this is the first time so many students are dealing with so many firsts. When you deal with a first, you don't know what happens next. And that's super scary. But I can help you and I help parents to do it too. And I think IECs are in a wonderful place to really help families to not just look at college in terms of getting in, but really looking at it in terms of how can you practice so many of these life skills that are gonna set you up to be in such a position of, power to be in a place where you have an advantage.
'cause you're gonna be proactive ahead of the change and you are gonna be the most important part of your success story.
Ringae Nuek: I love that. Well, I think that's a great place to wrap it up. Any last. Words for the parents and students out there.
Harlan Cohen: No, I think it's really important to be supported and, you can't do this on your own. There are so many different places to get information and one of the things that, I love to do is to be in their corner. I strongly encourage families to check out my on-demand events.
A lot of them are really fun. Also my Best First Year coaching program. There's really nothing like it. It's for parents. Students will also access it. It's great for IECs, you know, if you wanna provide a resource for your families. I help with, long-term outcomes, successful outcomes. I've been doing this for over 25 years and, it's just, it's like I, I'm on a mission to help solve problems.
Ringae Nuek: Okay, great. And what's the best URL for that?
Harlan Cohen: Yeah, I go to BestFirstYear.com. Best First Year, find me on social media. Harlan Cohen on Instagram, Help Me, Harlan on TikTok. I'm also on YouTube. I have podcast, updated edition of The Naked Roommate is out now and I'm working on this new college to career book. So anyway, lots of stuff cooking and I'm excited for you and I'm excited
For families to get, to take advantage of your resources.
